Curse

BigTru · Oct 22, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I hope this doesn't just become another forgotton issue

A.Net has had plenty of time to fix it, but I guess they already have forgotten about it

Xenrath · Oct 22, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Please can someone point a link to some testing about the Knights NOT being locational absorption? Most people believe it or not don't go looking at all the forums and know every bit of info there is. Most people I've asked all thought the same thing, absorption was locational. It's the same for absorption rune isn't it? Or is that universal too? The manual says locational... Links please, am curious to read what's going on (and no insults thank you)

LifeInfusion · Oct 22, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ght=absorption

Charcoal Ann · Oct 22, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

i've done the testing myself as well. cos i read the manual (pff, i know not to do THAT again) i thought the same as you.
after testing however it was obvious.

and it is wrong. i think knights needs to be brought up to scratch.

Rajamic · Oct 26, 2005, 08:23 AM // 08:23

The entire Warrior armor selection needs to be reworked.

Ascalon/Knight: 80 + 10 Phys, -2 damage per hit
Platemail/Wyvern: 85 + 10 Phys
Gladiator: 80 + 20 Phys, + Energy

-2 damage isn't anywhere near as good as +5AL or +10AL vs. Physical. But the extra energy and +10AL vs Physical is definitely better than +5AL. There's just no contest all around.

Here's what I'd do.

Standardize the helmets. Make them just like other classes where they get base stats and +1 in some attribute. 80+20 or 85+10 for them all, with +1 in an attribute.

Leave Platemail and Wyvern alone.

With Gladiator, either make it 75 + 10 Phys, or 80 AL with no Physical. Keep the energy bonuses.

Leave the AL on Ascalon/Knight alone. But modify the absorbtion. Make multiple pieces stack and make the amount of reducion vary based on the piece of armor.
Hands and Feet: -1
Legs: -2
Chest: -3
That would be -7 total. That sounds about fair for an armor with 5 less base AL than Platemail/Wyvern.

Battle Torn · Oct 26, 2005, 01:29 PM // 13:29

I like the idea that in mixing different armour can give you an edge. For me it boils down to losing +5 energy from glads for -6 damage reduction from platemail and knights gloves combo and shield -2 gloves -2 rune -2 shield.

btw anyone know for sure if thorgails shield -2 reduction stacks with the gloves? or am trying to convinse myself

Lim-Dul · Oct 26, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Btw. I think the competition between Gladiator's Armor (with Knight's Gloves/Boots of course =) and Platemail Armor is a close shave.

There are different playing styles and different opinions on that matter. Sure, you get some energy from the Gladiator's Set, but most of the spike damage you'll be getting will be elemental damage - and there the 5AL more make a huuuuge difference. Especially since steady lower DPS attacks are far easier to deal with (your monks will heal you anyway). The + to energy is only useful at the beginning of a fight - later on you'll be stuck with your puny two arrows of energy regen anyway and if you brought your Gladiator's Set just to cast expensive spells - well, warriors aren't meant to cast expensive spells - many of them cause exhaustion and the others are plainly too expensive. If you cast a 25 energy spell the next time you'll be able to cast it again is in over 33 seconds provided you don't use any other energy consuming skills - and that pretty much equals to you getting owned in the meantime.

So - Platemail/Knight's isn't necessarily the worse choice of armor - it just depends on your gaming style. There is no reason to brag with physical damage resistance since the only time a warrior will take physical damage is when he'll be beating up other warriors (without elemental weapons that is) and this is exactly what a warrior SHOULDN'T do. Besides - if I see a Warrior in Gladiator's Armor I just switch weapons to any kind of elemental.

It's just like with the monk armor. Too many people think they are uber-1337 because of their tattoos - other players prefer the Sacred set or the Censor's set (which even SUBSTRACTS energy) - so what? All of them can be successful and none is really in a disadvantaged position.

The only thing we can agree upon is that the Knight's/Ascalon Sets are total crap as a whole. The Gloves or Boots rule though. =)

P.S.

Quote:

btw anyone know for sure if thorgails shield -2 reduction stacks with the gloves? or am trying to convinse myself

Yes - it stacks. Any kind of shield is not, in fact, a part of your armor set.

entropy · Oct 27, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I met a W/E using lightning surge, meteor, and shock today. So

lol and he wasn't even using glads. I guess im such a n00b for not recognizing that he has "enough energy" It was full ascalon. the thing about it though is who is going to target the warrior with elemental attacks? I mean maybe if he was the least 2 warriors on the team but otherwise the casters would get the brunt of it. And if it was the last 2 it would not make a huge difference. Another thing is that the 5 extra energy can is useful because frenzy/sprint/secondary skills all use energy. the 2 regen is horrible but a zealous hilt grants you a great amount of energy. I believe around 3 pips but thats if it always hits. Warriors don't have much energy which is why its sooo good. They don't need it as much but its always nice to have. glad armor to me would be like 80al armor on my ele

Lim-Dul · Oct 27, 2005, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Yeah - like I said before. It really depends on your style. I can see the point in wearing Gladiator's Armor - I'm just not wearing it and I'm fine at that. And I've thrashed many a Glad-Sporting Warrior in PvP, then, I've also been thrashed many times by them. But by Platemail Ws as well. As far as I recall I never been thrashed by any Knight's Armor/Ascalon Armor Warrior though. ^^

LifeInfusion · Oct 28, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim-Dul

Yeah - like I said before. It really depends on your style. As far as I recall I never been thrashed by any Knight's Armor/Ascalon Armor Warrior though. ^^

lol. Most people wearing knight's in PvP are ignorant or have found out too late (like 15k Ascalon...)...

When I want energy, I use warrior's endurance and/or zealous hilt, so gladiator armor DOES help.

Lim-Dul · Oct 28, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Well - with Warrior's Endurance - not really since it can't raise your energy above a certain level. And Platemail Ws can also use the above mentioned skills so what is the real advantage of Gladiator's Armor? (I know - I'm provocative, but I'd like to hear some better arguments - that's all)

entropy · Oct 28, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Energy is the thing that wars have the least of. Armor is what the casters have least of. The casters can get more armor but they have downsides. The glads don't have any. Its unbalanced like that but I hope they don't nerf glads.

LifeInfusion · Oct 28, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

The advantage is you can STORE more energy. If you want to pull of 5 of the 5 energy-each attacks, you can.

You cannot do that in platemail, you have to wait for the measly two pips of regen to get 5 energy which means less chances of chaining 5 things in a row. (i.e. frenzy, sprint, hamstring for a 20 energy combo would leave you still 5 energy for a seeking blade or weaken armor, hamstring, victory is mine combo)

The most you can get is 4 of the 5 energy attacks if you use anything but glad's.

BigTru · Oct 28, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Yep, they've definitaly forgotten about this

I was hoping for it in the las patch, I mean, how hard can it be to program the hit-location as opposed to redigning a town?

/sigh, guess we'll never see a use for full Knight's/Ascalon armor and Warriors will only have 2 true viable armor choices :/

Lim-Dul · Oct 28, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Sure - you can pull of one more attack, but if you were to confront a platemail warrior, then your attacks would deal less damage anyway, so how does that matter in the long run? ;-)

OK - guys, I understand that there are lots of Glad's fanboys around here. I just wanted to point out that I'm only provoking you. I'm not a platemail fanboy and won't defend this armor with my life. I just want to make clear that Glad's is not THE only choice a Warrior has and that all people NOT using Glad's armor aren't stupid n00bs (unless they use pure Knight's/Ascalon armor in which case they are =) as some players want to make everybody believe.

Quote:

I was hoping for it in the las patch, I mean, how hard can it be to program the hit-location as opposed to redigning a town?

It wouldn't be hard if they were even trying. But as it is, they aren't. :-( I mean - even with all the great updates one can criticize the devs a bit providing it is CONSTRUCTIVE criticizm, right? And I think people have hinted at the armor-balancing (and usefulness in the case of Knight's/Ascalon Armor) issue more then once. It starts to annoy me that no one is doing anything.

(And what about Druid's Armor? Sacred/Censor's Armor vs Tattoos? Virtually all the armors giving an energy bonus are unbalanced - they have no real disadvantages, and the other armors, in turn, don't have any real advantages over them. I mean - +8 nrg vs a +5 AL vs elemental dmg on the sacred set? Or +10 vs physical while sacrificing even more energy? I think all the "energy armors" should have some AL penalty - 10 points would be a good start - and remember that I'm saying this as a Monk with Tattoos and a Ranger with Druid's Armor (I have 2 accounts so I have all 6 primary professions at hand - in PvP as well as in PvE))

entropy · Oct 28, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Yes they do have downsides such as less armor. A warrior should not be fighting another warrior so... I mean why hit someone with 105 armor? And if +5 energy for -5 armor is all they are gonna make it I'm gonna wear it. You could just get a +5 armor mod

Akhilleus · Oct 28, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

The entire Warrior armor selection needs to be reworked.

Ascalon/Knight: 80 + 10 Phys, -2 damage per hit
Platemail/Wyvern: 85 + 10 Phys
Gladiator: 80 + 20 Phys, + Energy

-2 damage isn't anywhere near as good as +5AL or +10AL vs. Physical. But the extra energy and +10AL vs Physical is definitely better than +5AL. There's just no contest all around.

you have a point, except with comparing -2 and 5% al.
since guild wars rounds DOWN, you would need a 50 damage attack to exceed the effectiveness of the -2 dmg given from ascalon, in comparison to platemail. this means that if ascalon/knights gear was not broken, it would, under most circumstances, be SIGNIFICANTLY better than platemail.
as for platemail vs gladiators, pve gladiators is pretty much hands down better, but pvp, if you go up a warrior or ranger who does not possess an elemental hilted/bowgriped weapon switch, you are fighting a newb. anyone who can afford a weapon switch with an elemental hilt, grip or whatever should have one, as it drastically increases your effectivness.

Quote:

Here's what I'd do.

Standardize the helmets. Make them just like other classes where they get base stats and +1 in some attribute. 80+20 or 85+10 for them all, with +1 in an attribute.

i agree/disagree here.
unless the game creators MEANT for knights to be broken (which they obviously didnt) doing this makes no sense.

Leave Platemail and Wyvern alone.

i agree
under certain circumstances, every armor has its advantages, when they all work properly.

With Gladiator, either make it 75 + 10 Phys, or 80 AL with no Physical. Keep the energy bonuses.

agree/disagree.
good idea at heart, though i think gladiators needs 1 simple modification reduction; the +20 reverting to +10; this would make the decision of plate vs glads vs (non-broken) knights a little bit tougher.

Quote:

Leave the AL on Ascalon/Knight alone. But modify the absorbtion. Make multiple pieces stack and make the amount of reducion vary based on the piece of armor.
Hands and Feet: -1
Legs: -2
Chest: -3
That would be -7 total. That sounds about fair for an armor with 5 less base AL than Platemail/Wyvern

good idea at heart, bad idea in practice.
few people realize how little good the 5 AL actually does.
a 50 damage attack vs a warrior with (85+10) would deal 27.23 dmg
with a -7 ascalon/knights, that damage would be 22.73 dmg;
even a 125 dmg attack would do less vs an ascalon stacking type than vs platemail. the attack would need to be appx 145 dmg for platemail to exceed the effectivness of ascalon under these conditions; and a 145 dmg base attack is virtually unheard of in GW.
i think they simply need to fix ascalon/knights, and lower the physical bonus on gladiators to +10 (or raise the other armor types to +20).

LifeInfusion · Oct 29, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

And if +5 energy for -5 armor is all they are gonna make it I'm gonna wear it. Y

precisely, plus you get extra armor against rangers in the process.

BigTru · Oct 31, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Maybe I should PM Gaile again

BigTru · Nov 10, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

/sigh